Interval, and why retail doesn’t understand community
We recently took part in an online discussion with Aidan from Interval which was kindly organised and curated by Jack Stratten from Insider Trends. Jack has been a great advocate for our work and we have had some fascinating conversations with him over the last few years. He posts some really interesting things on his Substack and also his LinkedIn page - both are well worth following. We also love doing tours, or a ‘retail safari”, around retail stores in London and reviewing what works, doesn’t work, and everything else in between.
He summarises our discussion beautifully in a recent Substack post; Interval, and why retail doesn’t understand community. We used a quote from this article in a recent presentation we gave at a running conference recently (more on that in a bit) and it really does resonate with us.
One of my biggest takeaways is that most brands and retailers don’t understand community. Rather than facilitating it, they want to control and own it and end up throttling the very thing that attracted them to an area.
You can watch the full video discussion online at the Substack page or also on Youtube below. Interval was also recently awarded a Highly Commended Prize in the Creative Retail Awards.
We hope you enjoy the ideas discussed in the video. If you would like to discuss this further please get in touch, or join us on a retail safari! The transcript is below if you would prefer to read rather than watch.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
Hi guys. So, thanks so much for tuning into this. So Jack Straten - Insider Trends, for those of you that don't, don't know us now we, I think anyone that does know us probably knows us for I don't know the kind of stuff we do for bigger brands, sometimes tech companies, and something that comes up a lot, which has really inspired where we started to have this conversation, and all become Clear very shortly, is that we and I find it really annoying, actually, to be honest, it's increasingly we do work with brands, and do work in an environment where everyone is talking about community focused retail, boutique retail, grassroots retail, niche retail, all these kinds of things. And then the examples actually tend to be really massive brands who are trying to own that sort of idea own that space, and there's something quite hollow in it, if I'm totally honest, you know, it's not. I have nothing against a lot of these brands. I won't name any specifically, but we all know them. You know, a brand has 1000 stores around the world, says it's got a boutique, community focused store. And it's that there's something I think often slightly underwhelming at the end of that process, inevitably, because this is normally a business that's been around for 50 years, and it's enormous. And I want to start to share more examples of genuine startup retailers with grassroots stories who are community focused in a very real way. And I had a moment recently where I found one almost by accident, and that's what this session is all about. So I'm joined by Andy Matthews and Aidan Thompson, hi, guys. Aid. So firstly, Andy, so Andy from Andy Matthews studio, architect based in London, and Andy, and he'll tell you all about his experience in a minute that he worked on Jack Smith. I love Tracksmith. Love what Andy did at their store in London. And then, having met him, he told me about interval, which is a Running Company, and that's really the story of today, is how Andy met Aidan and how he ended up creating Aidan's first and only store, the story of how that came to be, which is really lovely story. Most importantly, I think there's so much learning in it about what some of these hollow things that we talk about a lot really mean. I'm not going to tell you too much more about that, because Andy has put together a great deck to really explain it, and then I'll jump in with questions, and Aidan will pitch in regularly as well. So Andy over to you, mate, thank you.
Andy Matthews – Andy Matthews Studio
Thanks for the intro. I think this first slide is this phrase, it's only running, is one of the most appealing things that has come out of meeting Aidan, because it running has got quite bougie. Maybe it's become very popular. But actually, Aidan's approach to this has been very, I guess, community, but just ordinary and kind of just downplaying, and I love the messaging that comes out from that. But this is a bit of a story to tell before that, which is, how did, how did we get here? And quite an interesting journey. So serendipity being one of my favourite words. But so we did a we supported Tracksmith on their London pop up before they then completed a store. And we actually, actually worked in the New York pop up in November 22 and I went for a little 5k run. It's a shakeout run. I met this, this chap called Aidan, who lived in Camberwell, where I live, and wasn't American. And we kind of, we didn't realise this picture existed until about four or five weeks ago, did we? I think now, I think
Aidan Thomson - Interval – Interval
We'd kind of convinced ourselves that this happened, but weren't actually sure it had such nice story. And then you found the photo Yeah, and didn't think
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews
any more of it. And at that point, you were working for your growth and marketing manager for..
Aidan Thomson - Interval
Yeah, growth marketing at days brewing, alcohol free beer company, and
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
you didn't know anything about retail, I think. Is that okay? Yeah, so we'd also, in between there, we'd helped track Smith, deliver their their London store, which is, which is an amazing experience. And we learned so much through that, just going from initial kind of bubble diagrams, how to people interactive space, obviously, a full blown store, and that was what we call, often referred to as, like the physical manifestation of their brand, if you like. So it's like their first kind of physical retail present. And then I'll pass quest again, because Russ, who's in this picture, and the black and white one, referred us back to Aidan, and said, you just have a chat. And this very nice guy called Aidan had a big idea. Is that fair to say,
Aidan Thomson - Interval
an idea at that stage,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
and you were still working and, and I think it was, you know, it was a bit, it was interesting. And I think we went for a conversation, bit of a beer, and so on, and, and it seemed a bit tenuous. And I think the brief was, was, was vague, and it, there was no money, and there was lots of other things flying around, but I think we, we really liked you and got on with you and just thought, well, we could, we could probably help do something interesting here. And you'd also done some branding in the background, hadn't you with with Luke? But
Aidan Thomson - Interval
yeah, I think the branding was the first time it began to feel real. I think when we first spoke, when I first spoke to Russ, it was like your classic late 20s, sat working from home, being like, I might, might do my own thing. I thought I'd like ring Russ at Tracksmith and just get a read of how they how they thought, how they thought of Scotland, to be honest, and like what a brand like feud Scotland does, very tall pipe dream. And then suddenly we're speaking to Andy, suddenly we're looking at properties, suddenly building a brand. While it all still felt pretty was it literally
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
how? I mean, because Andy is going to get into this in a sec. But how quick was that? How quick was the process between you sort of being like, because most people are like, well, most people start brands, running brands, any brand, and open a store. They'll have worked for an adjacent now, you hear it all the time, like someone who, you know, they'll, they'll be a senior person at a fashion brand for like, 10 years, and then they'll open up their own fashion brand, because they know everyone already. They got all the networks and whatever. But you do, you you weren't doing anything like that. You said, right, I'm gonna open the store in Edinburgh. How quick was that bit between when you sort of vaguely were talking about it with a pint with Andy, and then you were like, right, we're gonna open the store in Edinburgh. I think
Aidan Thomson - Interval
it was like three or four months. I think it was like August, September, spoke to Russ, had some pints with Andy pretty soon afterwards. And then it was December, and I was like, speaking to my dad, and I was just telling me to do it, and handed my notice. And in January, without having the property or or anything, I think we flirted with the idea of, like, pop ups and testing. And I spoke to few people. Were like, could you test online and but it just felt like, which we'll get on to later, like you can't also can't build a community around a pop up. You don't know how long you're going to be there. You can't get to know the street, the people, the bricks and mortar. A bit felt so key. And I'd spend so long working in digital and was maybe slightly digitally fatigued that I was like, it needs, we need the space like that was the
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
big yeah thing.
Aidan Thomson - Interval
We need that permanency. And yeah.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
But it was fascinating how quick you came to that something. And it's funny also how quickly you came to the realisation that a lot of people, you know, it can take years and trying all kinds of the wrong thing. I think you sort of figured out something really crucial, just like that. And sorry. Andy, I totally carry on with the random, but it just, it was that it's remarkable how quick that happened. It's amazing. I think the
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
other thing is, this was really interesting because you started approaching brands. You don't, I mean, there's so many things to solve in parallel. You can't do them concurrently, can you? So I guess, you know, the amount of energy involved in that and going and talking to all these brands was quite interesting as
Aidan Thomson - Interval
well. Yeah, definitely. I mean, a lot of it was just like scrappy messages on LinkedIn and trying to find the right people to speak to. And the difference like you, you can message a founder of a of a smaller, smaller brand, and you could probably have a call with them the next week. And it was, you know, it all felt very quick, but then, with the big brands, it could take, like, weeks to even get the right contact. And definitely was a struggle at the start. I'm kind of looking back like Fair enough. Was a struggle to be taken seriously. You know, there are similar to probably Andy at the start, they're like, Yeah, cool. This sounds good. Have you got, have you got a space? No, okay, can you maybe come back when you at least got somewhere we can put our products like it was definitely a big learning experience that I mean, I didn't even know that, like you ordered. I didn't really even know what SS, 25 and Aw, 24 what these phrases meant in retail. And then, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, great. We're gonna open, like, around about the time of the Olympics. Like, there's few good Scottish athletes. It's perfect. And they're like, Yeah, but it's right in the middle of the season, and we don't have any stock, and you need to order six months in advance. So I was like, Ah, shit, yeah. We then suddenly, like, we're gonna open a shop without anything in it anyway. Yeah, a lot.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I think there's this other I mean, it all became real quite quickly, didn't it? We came up to Edinburgh a couple of times, but this one we were looking at potential retails. I mean, talk about retail Safari. We walked around Edinburgh my wheelie case, and went to lots of quite, quite average spaces that, you know, and trying to see past that kind of thing. But it was interesting trying to see what may and may not work. And you were also looking at which part of town might work for you. And I think that discussion was really interesting, and we were almost kind of relating, well, this one feels a bit like boreal or Peckham or something, and this one feels a bit more like, I don't know, days water or something you want to mean. So it kind of like, or this is a bit more dull itch. Do you know? Yeah, I think the
Aidan Thomson - Interval
biggest advantage with Edinburgh always was like, you could compromise on foot for without, you know, massively negating distance from key areas. Like you could do both. You could do community and ultimately be a shop that needs to make money at the same time by the size of the of the city, like people can get around, and it was always going to be a destination store, but definitely, like down in London, at times, it felt like you would eventually, if you're opening a store like this, have to make a decision around community or fruit fall and reach traditional retail to an extent, whereas in Edinburgh you can, kind of, you can, you can do both. I think, Well, I hope, yeah, give it
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
might be interesting people listening. Give us, for anyone know, a sense of your location, Easter road. How far would that be from, sort of central retail areas in Edinburgh or central kind of, you know, just generically, kind of like Royal Mile or that type of business. We're about
Aidan Thomson - Interval
a 2025, minute walk from, yeah, inter Street from Edinburgh Waverley, like the main, the main train station, but we're definitely, like, eyebrows were definitely raised when we said we're opening on on Easter Road, like, it's not, yeah, you know it's not, it's not high Well, it is a high streets in extent, but yeah, it's not known for shops like this, or shopping in general. But there's, yeah, there's something
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
in that, though, the fact there, the fact that it's, it's a destination store, but, like, you know, you're not, you're in a non traditional retail location for what you're trying to do, but that it is walkable from that central area. It's a really good point. You know, people are talking about London, Paris, Berlin, New York, these kinds of cities. It's like, actually, when you choose that different location, that's a whole different thing, because then you're just, it's like being in a different town altogether, you know. So I get it, there was still, you know, it's a compromise, but not quite a compromise. It might be in a city like London.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
The other thing is, is comparing it. There's no one else doing this in edibles there. So, you know, there's London's quite crowded. Lots of people are trying to do this, but the fact that you chose Edinburgh it's still very hard, but obviously it's, you know, you're the only one in that market, aren't
Aidan Thomson - Interval
you? Yeah? And I also like, I yeah, I lived in London for five years, but, you know, Edinburgh's home. Grew up in Edinburgh, again, to your point, around big companies trying to build community, like, I think it's incredibly hard when you don't know the area and the nuances in the city, and, yes, the people and the way they communicate, the tones like, that's when things fall on death ears. That's when you see, you know, poorly written billboards up and down. Yeah, I think, yeah, that it's really tricky to build a real community when you're not from the area at times, because it is already, you already feel really part of it, and you are doing everything with I hope that the best interest at heart, it
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
talks about the community thing as well, didn't we, because what I liked about what you were saying was that you weren't to Start your own community. Were there to support existing running clubs and crews, whatever, you know, and, and it was very much a kind of open to the, you know, to everyone who's already there. Come on, come all type things in it. Yeah,
Aidan Thomson - Interval
they, they're already here. They were here well before I came back. And, you know, they here a while before running is in whatever runnings in right now. So it's definitely a switch from like, how can we facilitate that community? And how can we differentiate, if we take events, what what we offer and be, hopefully, a source of information within running as well and expertise, so to speak. But, yeah, community facilitator, I guess, is where it kind of ended out, rather than building our own community, like, the store is opposite a pub that has a run club from it every Thursday, you know. So we don't want to come in and be like, Oh, now on Thursday we're doing our own club runs. Like, nice, or these, these things are already here. Like, how do we, how do we work with them, rather than saturating which, you know, has, has happened, and, yeah, other love
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
that that's a really nice and humble way of looking at it. I really like that.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
We found a store, didn't we? Sorry? As to, kind of, there's a conversation, but, you know, some, there's some slides, but I think,
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
yeah, this is the one, yeah, the
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
previous, the previous kicking the tires. Thing was, came to conclusion quite quickly that a corner store was going to work really well for you, I think, didn't we? And it's this, there's a bit of this idea of a kind of shop front on, sorry, a kind of a warm living space onto the street. And it is giving something to the street as well. But I think it just that all of the spaces we looked at the corner gave you so much more, didn't it, in terms of what you could offer, it's
Aidan Thomson - Interval
intriguing as well, that even now, for all we talk about digital presence and socials and Instagram and yeah, we're very active on them all. When I asked people in Edinburgh, when I asked them how they heard about us, or how they found us, so many of them, it's still from driving past or walking past, or like your your shop frontage is so important, like those kind of everyday, everyday people. So the corner unit for that, for that reason, but but way more so for, uh, events and big gatherings. And if we were on just a busy or just a street like you do, get in the way, people get you know, we're British, we like to moan. People get annoyed at big groups of runners standing in the way and having that corner space with a dead end as well at the other end, it lets us, like do that piece, without massively disrupting the rest of the street.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
That's interesting.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
We talk about this one, the brief. The brief took a while to nail down, didn't it? And we talked to and we talked to you, and I know you've been talking with Russ and some of our other friends at Tracksmith, but I'd also had a really interesting chat with Perry at the store about like a start with a T shirt and build it out from there and so on, and lots of other insight. And it wasn't quite clear what we were trying to sell and what was going to so obviously, you have to do lots of things, but you don't want it to just be a wash with what's the actual purpose. And suddenly it became apparent that it was about shoes, and it was a shoe shop. I think was that in a pub as well? Maybe, I'm not sure, but
Aidan Thomson - Interval
think so. I think that came from a conversation with a guy called Victor, who has a store called renegade in Auckland, who I was introduced to, and his one bit of advice was, like none of it matters if you don't get your three daily trainers right, like that. That's what will be here when running is not cool again. That's what's rotated, that's what's inclusive, that's what lets everyone come in, and that's what ultimately lets the business do the things you want to do, like you know you can't, you can't run community events all the time. If you're not making like, you're just getting stressed, you can't make a real community either, if you're stressed all the time, like, and getting that right, and knowing that was with I think, yeah, that felt like a big turning point, particularly for you Andy, because I, in my head, didn't really know the whole time what? Yeah, I think I
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
ended up getting a bit annoyed with us, because we're like, come on. You know, what's it actually about? What are we trying to do? And and this was such a pivotal moment for us. I know you were trying to solve so many things in the background, because the designs like an eighth of what you were trying to do at the time. So you're quite sensitive towards it, but at the same time, it did the brief. Did need, need a focus, didn't it in the and as soon as we got this. It's like, yeah, okay, fine, we know what we're doing. We're off the races. We can respond to that. But, you know, getting frustrated. But it was, it was, we were moving the brief round quite a bit when, and as soon as it had that focus and another trip to the pub, we, you know, we solved it, I think so, you know, the trainers gave it a focus, and obviously we'll see how that's resolved. And then other things are somewhat subservient to that, but still flexible enough that they can kind of grow from there. And just a doodle and kind of and thinking about how it might work. And, you know, how might people come into the store? I think was, was really, really helpful for all of us. And we've done some other things in the background, hadn't we, I think, to support you in terms of what's the identity like. And I think what's really helped for us when developing briefs with clients, of all people, especially retailers, that tell us what you don't like as much as what you do like. Because we can kind of push against those two things a little bit. And I think we tried to kind of play some of our conversations and understanding back to you, as well as hoping to add, obviously, say what to avoid, but that's that's a different style that that's not appropriate for, for your ethos and values. And again, we looked at demand and run it in Edinburgh and all those other things, and, and, and not as good as Jack, but we did something about retail trends, maybe about where that's going, and just what we'd seen and picked up from in our own experience. But also coming back to the brief and, and again, with this pushing against the what do you like, what you don't like, and so on, we'd come up with a series of visual precedents, which kind of gave is a bit of a flavour of how it might develop, and obviously not taking on those, but it's warm, it's it's welcoming, it's tactile. You know, there's lots of these other other things that we talked about, and I think we go back to this idea of constraints. What was really, really interesting for us is that there is just no money. It's a startup. It's still very embryonic. And I think even at this stage, it's like, we're not quite sure where this is going to keep going forward. So you know, if there is no money, what can we focus on? And we came up these three ideas with Aidan to say, well, the shop floor, I think, is really important, because it just sets that old precedent for it. And you got really lucky finding that timber floor under there, the shop front. Well, the shop front already exists, so how do we activate that? And how do we get that fresh? We use vinyls or what other presentations within there. Doesn't really cost so much money, but get the lighting right as well. Because I think that really, really affects the mood and the feel of the store. And I mean, there's lots of other things to solve, but I think if you hold on to those three ideas, I think uni can have something quite special. And then we also talk a lot about the human experience. I think this comes from personal but I think from both of us, Aidan's just there's lots of really nice brands in the world that I probably wouldn't cross the threshold into their store at times, because it can feel comfortable overwhelming, and we wanted to focus on avoiding any awkwardness, you know, just being welcoming and just coming through the store. And a lot of that came down to Aidan as a personality character in his own right. You want to see him, and it's very personable, but it's also as you pay, how do you not feel awkward when you're trying on shoes and the store is operating around you? And so a lot of these kind of, I don't know what the right word is, but almost like slightly subconscious things, and a lot of our work, we think about you notice when a space is bad and you bump into people, it's and you don't notice when it just flows and it works. And I think getting those initial moves right is really important. Was
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
there Aidan, I'd ask you as well, and maybe Andy, I put this question to both you. Is there any, were there any retailers, though, that that stood out as being inspiration? Because they did get some of that right, that you felt like they were spaces where, you know, even if they were reasonably premium, you did feel they're inviting. I do. I'll be honest. I do, and I'm not, you know, I do feel that a bit about Tracksmith that Andy worked on. That's one of the things I liked about that space. It's pretty it's a fairly premium brand, but it's not, it doesn't feel sort of cluttered by too many ideas. I felt very comfortable in there before I even really knew too much of what I was selling. I was quite comfortable going But was there any before, before this? There was obviously probably obviously, probably lots of things you didn't like, but there was any brands where you thought, God, I like going
Aidan Thomson - Interval
to that space from my end, and this is probably just a lack of retail like experience in a like I wouldn't before this, wouldn't I mean, now I do it all the time, but before this, I'd never walk into a retail space and really deeply analyse it. I'd analyse the people and how they made me feel, but the space less so, just because it wasn't in that the inspiration for me was always hospitality, like looked at like St John, or like the institutional, like place brutal, like places in in London that had that atmosphere that felt right, and then the sort of like, if the atmosphere feels right, then it feels like the the retail aspect must be working as well, because it all kind of goes sort of hand in hand. But I definitely, I mean, now I go into every retail store and I'm like, that's quite good, or that doesn't quote,
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
yeah,
Aidan Thomson - Interval
at this point, it was all about and Andy's point. And the thing for me now, more than than anything, is like, especially when you do have a bit of a presence online, and you get people maybe coming that aren't from Edinburgh to visit, is like, human side needs to live up to expectation. Like, there's nothing worse than you followed something on Instagram for a year, and you, like, are buzzing to go to it, and then you get there, and it's like, and obviously the people working there, and not, you know, not going to be as buzzing as you to come in, like they're just working part time, forgot their own stuff going on. But like, it's like, living up to expectation. Because if you build something, and there is hype for one of the better words, like, and it falls flat when someone comes that's just, that's like, the worst, the worst case, I was
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
just gonna say, honestly, like, it's so interesting hospitality, though, because, you know, you've just said that kind of very naturally, but honestly, most of the most I don't know, for me, like the most progressive retailers who are doing really interesting things in brand space, in brand spaces, the number one thing they'll say is that they're getting their influence from hospitality, because they know that the best hospitality is is, you know, is all about human service in a way that often retail isn't, for the reasons Andy has already pointed out. So I think you're bang on to be honest with that. Sorry, Andy, no,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I completely agree. I think it's that I was going to pick up on Aidan's point about hype. And I think Aidan's modesty and kind of, it's just running type thing. It really helps in that respect, because it's, there's danger of hype something up and then it doesn't quite deliver. Or you've seen something online that the photos look great, but I was at the event and it wasn't quite as good as it's being sold. And I think that, I guess what we're talking about is authenticity, isn't it? So, you know, Aidan lives, breathes and is part of the community. And it's, it's, it's cool, but in a good way, it's like, it's just community. And I think it's that authenticity which I find so appealing about it.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
Yeah, I love these. And then this is where the the drawings start to take shape, although, as you were saying earlier, oddly similar to the pub sketch, yeah, oddly even, yeah.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I mean, let's be honest, it's a very small space. We did look at using the Lower, lower level as well. It didn't quite work out. But, um, how do you optimise that to obviously, we need, we need Aidan to sell things, to make the business work. But how do we optimise it? And actually the real design came through these collaborative whiteboards, and we commissioned these CGis to help Aidan start launching a presence online. And obviously, you know, we want them for our own Instagram and things, but this kind of, I guess it's like a kind of soft, soft test of the physicality of the space a bit. And you know, clearly there are lots of things in Aidan said that we that, you know, a lot of these things are sent via WhatsApp of, you know, it's going to be a bit like this and bit like this. And that was really helpful, just to tease all this stuff out. And I think what's really nice is that, actually, it is really sunny on Easter road at times, isn't it, and it does wash in through here, and it's absolutely beautiful. And I think it's just, you know, the brand colours, and how does it feel, and what's the shoe wall like, and, and, you know, we go on to there, and obviously it is very sunny, and obviously we started with terra cotta floor. We didn't need to use that. And obviously it doesn't always, it's not always sunny in Edinburgh. So I'm that's belief, whenever I go, it is so but we felt representing it as it's actually going to be used is was really important. And, and, I mean, what's interesting for me about this is that this comes back to those core ideas of get the lighting right, have on Paris floor, and get the windows right. And, okay, it's, maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I think at a core, for some for something that doesn't really have much cash to throw at it, I think it's really, really helpful. And then keep, keep deep, diving with this really and even testing out, you know, to how big of the shoes, how comfortable to be, and some of the precedents we liked online and the tonality, and very, very simple products. And I think we, you know, we often, you know, little doodles and things in the whiteboard. We often do couple 100, 300 drawings for a project like this. And what we, what I personally really enjoyed, was not doing that. We did two drawings for Aidan, because, you know, the value add was the, you know, the kind of bigger idea. And ultimately, you were delivering this with carpenter and electrician and just whoever you could bring to it when you went after your own time and your sister and family. But these were toolkits, really. So, you know, try and make it a bit like this, but this is the core idea. Try and keep it off that a bit. And don't get too close to this. I mean, I don't know if you want to add anything there Aidan, but it's very different to how we'd normally do it, where we specify everything.
Aidan Thomson - Interval - Interval
I think because, because it was first time it, which you kind of said earlier constraints kind of breed creativity, or something along those lines. It's also like naivety fueled a lot of things as well. Didn't know anything different. Like, I think was it? It can't it might not be new Andy, but it was like, and now we maybe sometimes take it to technical drawing or like, and I was like, but isn't that this? Like, no, no,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
these, these are the drawings. Yeah,
Aidan Thomson - Interval - Interval
I'll just sit with my joiner and we'll just chat it through. But yeah,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
yeah,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
And there was one drawing for the ceiling. And again, that was it, wasn't
Aidan Thomson - Interval
it really, but sat down for an hour and they were like, yeah,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
absolutely. I think, I think it's really refreshing, because it's, what's the core of the idea? What's the actual exercise here? Well, we're trying to make a space that's like this, you know, the actual in some ways a technical realisation. And dare I say it may be slightly fussy, but it just wasn't suitable for this. Was it really? You didn't need us to do that,
Jack Straten - Jack Straten - Insider Trends
something you mentioned earlier, and you know, to make too big a point of it, but you with 200 drawings, you're more likely to have a lot of different things going into the space, as opposed to what Aidan has now, which is actually and what we'll see this in a minute. But, you know, like a space that has a kind of really lovely simplicity about it that allows it to evolve. Because obviously a shop evolves, especially if you aid in doing this the first time, but you're constantly learning and building things in. It's going to change according to, you know, seasonality and all kinds of other things. And what better than actually quite a stripped back space in order to do that, versus, yeah, the 200 drawings just means you can have a hell of a lot of stuff and then suddenly, two months late, you go, Oh, actually, yeah, we needed something different. Now we got rip a load of stuff out.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I mean, I would argue that we try and keep some flexibility in our designs as well. But yeah, your point is absolutely right, because you've designed it so heavily that there isn't that flexibility. But, I mean, that flexibility was was key. Here was Aidan, because you haven't run a retail store before. You haven't run a retail store in Edinburgh, and we don't know what the demand is. We don't know what's going to be popular. And it has to be able to be loose enough to respond to that demand. I think Maureen
Aidan Thomson - Interval
love it has to respond to planning. And, you know, the changing rooms not there, the treadmills there. Instead, we got the mannequin there because there's a toilet still there, because the council didn't last take out, and that felt like world ending for like, half a day when that got it. And then you're like, right? It'll be fine. Well, we'll have to have a toilet on the shop floor, but we'll call it a change room. It's four runners full workout, you know, like, yes, but that's also had that rigidity, I guess, of like this area is dedicated to, to this, and then something like that comes up in planning. You, you're like, but almost, you know, you can almost go back 1000 steps, because you've got these like drawings that you feel like, you you have to abide by, potentially, that thing
Jack Straten - Jack Straten - Insider Trends
that is authenticity, though, isn't it? That's the point. If you're a runner, if you're someone in that community, then, and you're in a store and you see something that is there because it had to be, because someone's set up a shop on a budget, that's that's actually what authenticity is, versus, oh, look, there's a street art mural, you know that's been made on the wall by an incredibly famous artist who was born nearby, that that that, and you're being told that's about what authenticity is, and it isn't. Authenticity is when is the scars, the real stuff that you see because someone wanted to open a shop and they had a budget, I don't know. I think, you know, we're too distanced from these things in a lot of mainstream retail.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I think, I think you're right. I think the other thing I was going to suggest is that a lot of these stores, in particular running and others, that they rely on key events throughout the year. So a lot of it is, how can we get more rails in for what we call marathon mode? So, you know, you keep kind of key things, or, you know, can there be a small concession here? So we'd designed in these other areas where, you know, you might be able to get more rails in, or or whatever, to service those things. And I guess there was also a discussion about, did food, food and beverage kind of come into this, you know, is there a coffee thing? And there was a lot going on, wasn't there
Aidan Thomson - Interval
really? Yeah, the early thoughts were, were the old Cathy Come Come retail, but with alongside the shoes coming in, I think we were like, Let's just, let's just do one thing. Let's just make it clear for if the whole thing's about over complicating, it's not over complicating things, then the worst thing we can do is start by having a slightly over complicated store, I guess. And sure, we sometimes do batch brew on the weekends, if we're if we're doing but again, that goes back to community. Like, there's three amazing coffee shops in Easter roads. Like, what do? What do I add by having another one sort of in a running store? Like, nothing. Just,
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
I love that. That's really nice, because that is not what a lot of retailers don't that's not the way they're necessarily looking at it. I think it's really
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
nice. You were quite protective of the design more than I was. I think Aidan coming on to kind of keeping designing through WhatsApp. Weren't me as you were building it,
Aidan Thomson - Interval
yeah, like that. It's got our first minor drawing change, a plant being sacrificed, if that's going to be. And I think that maybe, again, there was, like, the inexperience of, like, maybe sometimes looking at the drawings and being like, you've done these, and you're an architect, so like, this must be here for a reason. And like, I need to go check, even though, like, I'm now standing here and it's like, I think the till, I think I need to be just behind the till, like, in a in a store that's been done for the last 200 years of shops existing. Someone's stood behind a till like, I think I'll probably do that, and then you're like, Yeah, crack on. All right, cool. We go.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
I guess some people can be quite rigid like that, but I think, I think for us, it's just it has to be flexible. And the reality is, is that you're seeing the space emerge and getting to grips with it and how you might engage with it. But, I mean, the whole process was fascinating to me, you know, I was trying to change rooms and joiner on the left to that you want to doodle some seats outside and and then we found that bulkhead wasn't there, and it's like, oh, great, there's some panelling around. Yeah, perfect. Let's, you know, it's, it felt, you know, it felt really exciting to me, even though I was, you know, in London, you were in Edinburgh. Do you want to talk about the day it opened? Not ready.
Aidan Thomson - Interval
I mean, definitely, like one of the best. But can't always really remember it days of my life. I mean, it was, it was a really interesting one, because I do get quite stressed, but I'm fairly calm, I'd say. And I had people come up from from like London that, you know, it had helped with the shop. And there is a big kind of day around it, and I could tell, like, no one, even the poster, came by, and it's like, when you open in like, a month or so, you're like, nah. Like, you tell like, a lot of people didn't think we would do it. I don't wanna make it sound like it was like Grand Designs and like I was backs against the wall, but like, cause I had the drawings, and cause I knew actually, how little really we needed to do in terms of fixed things. I mean, the shoe shelves literally went up the night before and that. And then I was like, cool, it's done. The shop is done. We literally, now just need to clear it all, clean it and finish off some paint. Like, I think, because I had the vision in my head, I knew we'd be fine. But, like, you could see everyone else being like, there's no chance. But, I mean, there's like 15 of us in there for like, three or four hours, and then come 5pm there's like 80 people, you know, starting, I
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
thought I was off the train to kind of have a beer with you and have a celebratory lunch before it opened. And then said, Oh God, need to start hoovering. Yeah.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
Gonna say something you're in Henry Hoover Yeah.
Aidan Thomson - Interval
Thursday was meant to be, like, friends and family opening night, but I got dropped pretty quickly. Like Thursdays, like in you come and if you don't want paintbrush, then get out. He
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
did it. Though, we did
Aidan Thomson - Interval
it. We didn't get the we didn't get the word mark or the sign on the outside, so there's a blank shot. But yeah, we did it and it didn't rain, because it wouldn't really work. If everyone had to be inside, to be honest, it would have been absolute badly. But yeah, it was good. It was good day.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
It's obviously been thriving since so it's a year in April, isn't it? No, it's coming up for a year. Is that
Aidan Thomson - Interval
right? 12th was the opening party. So yeah,
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
and I guess, having watched this from afar and obviously reflected on our experience, and obviously we keep in touch, I keep coming back to this idea that it's about people in the community, and it's not about the fancy finishes, and, you know, they're lovely, but actually, what you've created out of nothing, really is is just extraordinary. And I think I am quite critical of some of the, you know, bougie London, Brighton groups, but this seems so authentic and engaged. And, yeah, it's just lovely to lovely to watch from a farm.
Aidan Thomson - Interval
Love it, it, it. I'm also like, get nervous for sure, and like the digital side and that word community, but it does, it does feel real. And I think Andy managed to, you know, transparently is in running at the moment, it's not that hard to gather a big group of people and and take photo outside before, before like it that it's so in demand, but we're always like it shouldn't CO on the content side, like, if it doesn't live up to if it didn't feel like that on the day, it shouldn't go online. Think again. This is as much a testament to the communities that were already there, and we're getting like a mixture of, this isn't one club. This is loads of different people from different clubs coming for a slightly different event to their that's
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
quite unusual, isn't it?
Aidan Thomson - Interval
Weekly, weekly run? Um, yeah, maybe I think Edinburgh again, we benefit from not It's not over saturated yet, for sure. And I think the people within the communities know what can happen and and are rightly, like, protective of certain ways you do events, and not just doing everything willy nilly and collaborating with with anyone and anything that that comes up with some free samples or something like choosing that quite quite critically and making sure It is valuable.
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
Yeah, it's amazing. And I think the two big things that that I take away from this conversation, but it's just generally about learning about, is two massive things that people need to learn from. I think a lot more is the way that you framed, how you've looked at community through interval, which is that you know, which is very respectful and humble. You've turned up in a community and a place. How can you support that community? Not how can you create one around a brand which, even the best kind, let's face it, is a wholly transactional thing. It has to be because it's a business trying to own that. And why do they want to create community to make money out of them? Whereas I like the point that you made, which is, don't know this about shoes, we need to sell shoes to build a business, but in that business, that shop is going to support a community. It's a different way of looking at it, and I think a much more simple, humble way of framing it, which I really think retail is losing slightly, or definitely, there's a there are some, there are lots of brands who frame it the wrong way. That's definitely one thing. And the, you know, the other thing that really stands out from all of this, back to Andy's point about really, you know, you're not having any budget, and then really digging down into these three constraints, and constraints being so important with creativity, but also, you know, clarity of a sort of vision of something you've ended up with, something I can see just in the photos. Oh my god, I'm going to come up to Edward and see this story. I really look forward to doing that. But, you know, I see a lot of retail spaces, and what's really nice is even just from these photos, like I get it there, here is a thing that looks like what it was intended to be. It sounds like a simple thing that doesn't happen that much. My God, brands and retailers getting such a muddle, you know, like trying to, trying to manifest their ideas, and in a weird way, the one of the best things you had is not having the luxury of loads of money, loads of people helping you do this, being able to sit in the pub, chat to Andy and draw it. That's there's something in that there really is just a constraints and the simplicity of that. They're the two big things I'm going to take from this for sure. And, you know, really, really appreciate both of your time, I should say, as well, probably watching this if you want to see in terms of Andy, you can also visit, if you aren't in Edinburgh, you can't visit interval. You should visit Tracksmith, who have a store in Chiltern Street, which is, you know, very central, sort of 10 minutes back of Selfridges, which is really great. And you can see his handy work there. But obviously, if you're anywhere near Edinburgh, you must go and check out interval. You won't be able to miss it, because obviously you walked up up Easter road, and won't be necessarily that much to see, and then suddenly there'll be a beautiful running store. But yeah, do and do follow them both on LinkedIn and keep an eye on their progress, because I think it's a really, really lovely story. So look Andy, thanks so much for your time. Aidan, really appreciate it. Thank you.
Andy Matthews - Andy Matthews Studio
Thanks having us. And
Jack Straten - Insider Trends
yeah, thanks everyone for listening in, and all the best. Thank you.